美國推銷AV-8B戰機 將成新政府新難題
本帖最後由 sss79219 於 2016-1-18 01:03 AM 編輯AV8B戰機的資料小百科
乘員:1人.
長寬:14公尺.9公尺.
航程:2200公里.
武裝:25毫米航砲一門.左右共六個掛架可加掛副油箱.響尾蛇飛彈.導引炸彈.集束炸彈.多管火箭.機砲莢艙.
特殊技能:垂直起降功能.可從地面或船艦甲板起飛.
資料來源:百度百科.
美軍AV-8B戰機，可能是蔡政府上台後，台美之間第一個洽商的重大軍售案。
圖片來源:聯合新聞網
美國推銷AV-8B戰機 將成新政府新難題
今天出刊的最新一期美國「國防新聞」周刊報導，根據美國國防部消息人士透露，美方有意出售現役的AV-8B「獵鷹」（Herrier）式垂直起降戰機給台灣。以往國防部也曾非正式評估過AV-8B，但興趣不算太高。如今會不會在美方的「建議」壓力下決定採購，將成為蔡英文政府上任後，第一個需要考慮的難題。 獵鷹式戰機是英國研發的戰機，發動機分為四個噴嘴，可以將噴氣角度轉至向下，用以垂直起降。美國麥道飛機公司（已經併入波音）獲得英國授權所生產的獵鷹式，美軍型號為AV-8。早期的AV-8A已經退役，目前AV-8B服役於陸戰隊航空隊的七個攻擊機中隊，由於開始換裝F-35B戰機，因此AV-8B預計在未來十年之內逐步退役。 AV-8B最大優點是可以垂直起降，對於機場跑道面臨共軍飛彈攻擊威脅的台灣來說，具有很高的生存性；AV-8B原本只是對地攻擊機，後來加裝APG-65雷達與AIM-120先進中程空對空飛彈之後，也有空戰能力。但缺點是無法超音速飛行、維修成本高，垂直起降的操縱也不容易，因此在美軍服役時，失事率就頗高；國軍的後勤補保品質不如美方，而且AV-8B多半是1990年代生產，機齡漸老，屆時可能墜機或停飛待料情況，都比美軍更嚴重。 國防部過去曾經明確表達，空軍想要的下一代戰機，必須具備垂直或短場起降、超音速巡航、視距外空戰的能力，一般認為指的就是美軍的F-35B戰機。但美國連出售F-16C/D都未批准，我國想在未來數年內買到美方正開始要進入量產的F-35B，幾乎不可能。
文章出處:轉載至聯合新聞網
個人心得:
個人覺得獵鷹戰機其實也是不錯的機種吧.至少在灘頭防禦戰或反登陸戰支援灘頭友軍的時候.這種垂降戰機運用的當可能表現不比戰鬥直升機差.雖然獵鷹的速度跟一般戰機比起來是慢了點.但跟戰鬥直升機比起來已經算快了.加上防禦戰中不管是海獵鷹還是戰鬥直升機都是打了就跑.所以載彈量才是重點.從這點來看的話.AV8戰機的六掛架載彈量就超越戰鬥直升機了吧.
目前向F16.IDF都因為升級所以應該可以再撐好一陣子.所以個人覺得如果F16或F35戰機暫時還沒有的情況下先考慮跟F35一樣可利用垂直起降快速支援的獵鷹好像也是一個選擇啦.但個人倒是有點小好奇.那就是AV8戰機真的到台灣的話.是隸屬哪個軍種呢.美國好像是陸戰隊.但那是在船上的關係.台灣應該還是會放在陸地吧.那會是隸屬陸軍還是空軍呢.總之.請軍事迷對於美國推銷海獵鷹是否需要這方面討論看看自己的看法吧.出自sss79219原創內容
...<div class='locked'><em>瀏覽完整內容，請先 <a href='member.php?mod=register'>註冊</a> 或 <a href='javascript:;' onclick="lsSubmit()">登入會員</a></em></div><div></div> 印象中，賣攻擊機是美國大忌，據說是怕違反台灣關係法中對台軍售的限制：只能維護台灣自保能力的武器。請問大家是不是這樣…？
如果，真的要賣給台灣，不就表達現況中國武力犯台已具有十足的登陸能量了？！ 這機種米國海軍都已經少用了吧 Z.z 想要買的 買不到
不太想要的 卻拼命推銷
到底是針對台灣的需求
還是又到了交保護費的時間了
AV-8B最主要的功能是支援海軍陸戰隊所以才不需要到超音速的等級 要用這種戰機當主力戰機還是差了很大一截 而且這款飛機根本已經是進入停產的狀態了後續的維修可是很令人頭痛啊
這種戰機的操作方式跟直升機的操作方式有點類似，所以大概應該是海陸 陸軍或海軍吧<br><br><br><br><br><div></div> Taiwan will have the opportunity to procure refurbished AV-8 Harrier Jump Jets as the US Marine Corps (USMC) begins replacing the aircraft with F-35B stealth fighters, said US government sources.
The Harriers will be offered to Taiwan through the Pentagon’s Excess Defense Articles (EDA) program under the US Defense Security Cooperation Agency.
The AV-8 would fulfill Taiwan’s much-needed vertical and/or short takeoff and landing (V/STOL) requirement. China is expected to destroy Taiwan’s air bases within the first few hours of a war with its estimated 1,400 short-range ballistic missile arsenal and the Harrier’s V/STOL capability will allow the Taiwan air force to maintain air operations by hiding the aircraft in the mountainous interior.
A US defense industry analyst working in Taiwan said that it was a “great idea,” but the USMC’s AV-8s are “too worn to be of much sustainable service value, at least not without some, probably very costly, structural rehabilitation and avionics upgrade.”
The Taiwan Air Force is not crazy about the AV-8 and there is tremendous pressure to continue efforts to secure procurement of the F-35B short take-off and vertical landing aircraft (STOVL) aircraft.
The spokesman’s office of Taiwan’s Ministry of National Defense (MND) said the Air Force wants the best operational advantage and will want advanced fighters with supersonic, STOVL, stealth, and beyond-visual-range capabilities. Though in the past, the AV-8 was considered an option, “this kind of aircraft is outdated and its performance and capabilities fail to meet future operational requirements.”
Beyond V/STOL capabilities, the Harrier is subsonic and incapable of aerial dog fighting, said a Taiwan Air Force general. “According to my understanding, the Taiwan Air Force will not choose the AV-8 due to limited capabilities, refurbishment costs, and logistic support problems.”
Erich Shih, a Taiwan-based defense expert, said the idea of procuring AV-8s was a “stupid and silly idea” because the “operational range is extremely short and used aircraft would be costly for maintenance and spare parts, and the engine is very complicated to work on.” Though it would fulfill Taiwan’s VSTOL requirement, Taiwan’s Air Force wants the F-35B, he said An MND source within the policy section said that what the Air Force does not understand is that the US government’s refusal to sell them new F-16C/D fighters translates to continued refusal for more complex fighters, such as the F-35s.
Nevertheless, Taiwan’s Air Force continues to pursue the highly classified and complex stealth fighter, not realizing the US government will never release it, he said.
Taiwan’s obsession with the F-35B is nearly total with the production of a military patch with the fighter and ROC Air Force emblazoned on it.
Defense News has acquired a copy of Taiwan’s original 2002 Pentagon request for letter of intent (LOI) and for price and availability (P&A) data on the F-35B signed by Wang Chi-lin, then director of the Defense Procurement Division of the Taipei Economic and Cultural Representative Office (Taiwan’s de facto embassy in Washington). The letter demonstrates Taiwan’s early interest in the F-35B’s STOVL capabilities.
“Due to Taiwan’s ‘no first strike’ policy, the ROCAF considers initial strikes on conventional airfield to be both a priority to enemy offensive actions and devastating to the ability of Taiwan to defend against a surface invasion. Strikes on Taiwan air bases would neutralize existing aircraft due to their inability to perform short take-off and landings.”
“The primary purpose of this acquisition is to provide a credible response capability in the event that our air bases become non-functional due to initial air, missile, and SOF attacks.”
A former US Air Force officer working with the Taiwan military at the time said the Pentagon provided Taiwan with a F-35 briefing and the Taiwan officers attending were described as being “impressed.” However, little more was done about the request beyond that briefing.
The US ignored Taiwan’s request for new F-16C/D fighter aircraft and the message was clear, said a US government source, “if they are not getting new F-16s, they are not getting F-35s.” Beijing officials have described the sale of new F-16s to Taiwan as a “red line.”
There could also be trouble from the AV-8s manufacturer, Boeing. The company turned down a request to comment on participating in the refurbishment of the aircraft. “As expected, we have nothing to say about potential Taiwan sales,” said Ken Morton, Boeing Defense, Asia-Pacific.
Morton’s response is not surprising. Past pressure from Beijing on Boeing to cease defense sales to Taiwan has been troubling. In 2006, the company closed its Taipei offices and moved them to Singapore in an effort to placate Beijing. Boeing has repeatedly asked Defense News not to print articles mentioning Boeing’s sale of AH-64 Apache attack helicopters to Taiwan. Boeing has significant investments and business deals in China’s commercial aviation industry, and Beijing has used these dealings to influence not just Boeing, but other US companies to discontinue arms deals with Taipei.
By Wendell Minnick (Defense News)
January 16, 2016
...<div class='locked'><em>瀏覽完整內容，請先 <a href='member.php?mod=register'>註冊</a> 或 <a href='javascript:;' onclick="lsSubmit()">登入會員</a></em></div> 台灣不會買= =
因為跟本用不到
美國自已就要不用
應該是說要退役了
才想把整個打包賣出 訪美的「高規格接待」不用找數嗎 {:3:}
放心！這種「舊貨回收活動」只是第一件而不會是最後一件
之後將成新常態 {:3:} 以前覺得海獵鷹很夢幻，
以台灣受到飽和攻擊後很需要的戰機，
現在買很划算，
但是沒幾年可真的後勤比幻象還慘..... AV-8B就算有更新過,但那也使用很久了,也是過時的設計,以前買不到F-16及IDF尚未研發成功時,為了彌補空防需求,曾四處買世界各國退役的F-104,再翻新,但那些經翻新的飛機失事率故障率都比較高
AV-8B是英國授權給老美做的,雖然是用剩餘物資的名義賣,但價格應也不便宜,而且與其買這種中古的AV-8B,不如買F-18C/D,老美正將航母上的F-18C/D換成F-18E/F,如用相同的名義賣,個人覺得是比AV-8B更好...<div class='locked'><em>瀏覽完整內容，請先 <a href='member.php?mod=register'>註冊</a> 或 <a href='javascript:;' onclick="lsSubmit()">登入會員</a></em></div><br><br><br><br><br><div></div> 這種什麼消息人士說的話聽聽就好
那幾次成真了？ AV8B現在算是波音的，波音可不像洛克希德馬丁，放棄大陸市場無所謂，波音要是沒了大陸的訂單，恐怕在同空客的競爭就要落敗了。 jasonlee9904 發表於 2016-1-18 09:09 AM static/image/common/back.gif
AV-8B就算有更新過,但那也使用很久了,也是過時的設計,以前買不到F-16及IDF尚未研發成功時,為了彌補空防需求 ...
F-18C/D也不是很好的選擇
功能性與F-16同質性太高
它能做的事,F-16也能做
而且在某些領域,能力也不會比F-16強
AV-8倒是可以少量購入
台灣畢竟還有個太平島在空軍航程之外
AV-8可以布屬在強化機場後的太平島
(島上建構防空飛彈.對艦飛彈協同AV-8作戰)
另外台灣也可購入類似兩棲突擊艦的船隻
南海有爭端至少不會有種完全無力的感覺...<div class='locked'><em>瀏覽完整內容，請先 <a href='member.php?mod=register'>註冊</a> 或 <a href='javascript:;' onclick="lsSubmit()">登入會員</a></em></div> 舊款飛機就怕後勤
這些飛機買來大概只有飛一半
另一半要用來殺豬 如果美國真要強推AV-8B，那小英可千萬要擋住啊!!
台灣過去採購F-16A，現在更新為F-16V，採購紀德艦，採購退役派里艦，採購P-3，雖然有不少人台灣買的垃圾爛貨，但是小弟卻認為採購的有理由與有必要，唯獨這個AV8.....真的難以認同。
樓主自己所轉發的文章就輸得很明白了，"維修成本高，垂直起降的操縱也不容易，因此在美軍服役時，失事率就頗高"，後勤補保能力執全球牛耳的美國尚且妥善率低落，那後勤補保一團亂的台灣只怕妥善率會比當年F-104更淒慘。
不管AV-8的性能如何，飛不起來的飛機基本上只是擺在地上好看的裝飾品。...<div class='locked'><em>瀏覽完整內容，請先 <a href='member.php?mod=register'>註冊</a> 或 <a href='javascript:;' onclick="lsSubmit()">登入會員</a></em></div><br><br><br><br><br><div></div>